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Brittle Marshall

Inactive Member

Guitar Equipment Forum · 5/2/2002 6:33 AM
I have a marshall jcm 2000 tsl 100 head, running through a 4*12 cab, all greenbacks. The amp sounds fine wearing ear plugs or at practice volumes, but when I crank it to gig levels it turns into a very sharp unpleasant sound. I don't really mind it, since it sounds ok with ear plugs, but not everyone in the audience has those, so it becomes a problem. At my last gig I had to run it with both middle and treble at 3 to make it endurable, and still it was pretty bad. It seems like the eq on the amp can't catch the right frequency... Overall the amp has a pretty harsh, hard sound, where I'm starting to get more into softer, warmer tones.

The first problem, with the sharp tone, could an EQ pedal help? I could even get a rackmount eq and just run it through the fx loop... I understand that some of the sharp tone is necessary to cut in the mix, but not in these amounts.

How about changing tubes? I've played this amp regularly for quite some time now, so I don't think it's just that the tubes haven't been used enough. I don't know much, or well anything, about tubes, but I think it's el34's in it, riiiight?

Any help would be wonderful... does anyone have any other solutions?
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Re: Brittle Marshall

5/3/2002 7:51 PM

Terry Jacobson (1651) wrote:

how about trying some different speakers. maby some vintage 30s. they might mellow your sound out.i bet yah germ would have the answer. terry



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Re: Brittle Marshall

10/5/2010 2:33 AM

Darryl Burns (30) wrote:

I have a dsl-50 with 4*12 greenback cab?





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Re: Brittle Marshall

10/6/2010 10:40 AM

Danny Danzi (2052) wrote:

Hi,

I'll definitely shed some light on this for you that I think will help you greatly. First off, you mention Greenbacks. What wattage Greenbacks are they? I use 25 watt per speaker Greenies (100 watt cabs) and they sound fantastic. Very warm, nothing brittle. All the Celestions I've tried from 30 watts on up, all sound piercing to me and I hate them.

Now, the first thing I'd suggest is this. Where is your cab at when you eq'd your guitar tone? If it is on the floor blowing sound at your knees, there is no way you have a good sound. It must be at ear level so you can literally hear what you're getting. Those guys that throw a 4x12 cab on the floor and let it rip usually sound terrible. So make sure you eq it at ear level and see if that makes a difference.

If you are eqing at ear level and it still sounds harsh, how far do you have to move away from the cab before it starts to sound harsh and piercing? Here's the problem Johan...

Greenbacks are VERY focused speakers. Meaning, they are made for being mic'd at close range. When you get out of the 4-6ft range on a Greenie, they get a bit harsh. That's just the way they are. It's a lack of "projection" so to speak. Here's the thing...one offsets the other. Do you want a good tone from the cab that sounds bad when mic'd (as most of these do) or do you want a good sound at close range that has a mic on it anyway that will be sent out to the mains so a soundman can control it?

I get a happy medium over here. I do not believe in extreme stage volume because the louder you go, the more the soundman pulls you out of the mix. When you go super loud, all that raw, uncompressed and eq'd stage volume sewage (as I call it) is sent out to your audience. It just sounds bad and should be avoided or eliminated at all costs.

I have a nice healthy tone that is loud enough for me to hear it. I then have the soundman send a little of my signal into my vocal monitor so I can hear myself wherever I go on stage. This stops me from being pulled from the mix and I give him full control. Sure, there is a little stage volume because we're a rock band, but it's not to the point where I'm killing people. You won't even hear my cab unless you walk right up to the stage and stand in front of it.

But yeah, unfortunately, the Greenback cabs are all very focused and made for being mic'd. Your best bet is to raise the cab at ear volume, and eq it from about 4-6 ft away. Then, move in as close as you can and see if you still like the sound you hear as THAT is the sound that will be captured by the mic. If you want, you can try to eq from 6ft and beyond and try a happy medium. But, you'll notice that when you get really close to the cab where a mic would be, you'll end up too boomy and won't have enough cut or presence.

Try it from 4-6 ft away first. You should get really good results that way just using the eq on the amp. If by chance you are still unhappy, a 7 band eq or a parametric would be your best bet. There is no need for a 15 band or 31 band eq in a guitar tone unless you are really having issues with specific frequencies that need to be dialed out or controlled. A parametric usually handles this fine and allows you to fine tune the frequencies. A 7 band is pretty much all you need because most times, it handles the most important frequencies in a guitar.

A note on eqing. Try to cut whenever possible. Don't be a booster. If you have too much low end, don't turn up your treble...lower your bass. If you have a bit too much mid mud, don't raise the highs, drop the mids or the lows. If you are too trebly and piercing, don't raise the lows or mids, drop the treble.

For low end, if you can feel the hair on your arms move when you chug chords, you are using way too much bass. You should NEVER feel the bass in a guitar tone...you just need to hear it a bit. When you feel it, that means you are walking into bass guitar territory. A soundman or audio engineer is going to take that 80Hz and below and high pass those puppies right out.

Best of luck and I hope some of this helps. :)

Sincerely,

Danny Danzi



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Re: Brittle Marshall

10/5/2010 2:44 AM

Darryl Burns (30) wrote:

I have a dsl-50 with 4*12 greenback AC cab? I play a eric clapton signature strat with fender gold sensor pickups?



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Re: Brittle Marshall

10/5/2010 2:50 AM

Darryl Burns (30) wrote:

I have a dsl-50 with 4*12 greenback AC cab? I play a eric clapton signature strat with fender gold sensor pickups? I also use boss pedals with it.



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Re: Brittle Marshall

10/5/2010 3:00 AM

Darryl Burns (30) wrote:

I have a dsl-50 with 4*12 greenback AC cab? I play a eric clapton signature strat with fender gold sensor pickups? I also use boss pedals with a noise surpressor thru the fx loop.

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Re: Brittle Marshall

5/6/2002 8:59 PM

Bruce Maag (15581) wrote:

This page was tough to find, but I knew it existed. It has sound bytes of all the classic Celestion speakers.

You'll be  Surprised  by the difference. BTW - these files were created using a JCM 2000 !!

I've taken stock G12T-75's (what you get with most Marshall cabs these days), and replaced them with Vintage 30's and the sound byte I linked you to doesn't even come close to the difference in tone you'll get. They have the best overall tone of any of the Celestion's, but that's my opinion.

To me, Greenbacks are brittle sounding, and Celestion admits they have a treble edge.


`B`

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Re: Brittle Marshall

5/7/2002 4:28 AM

Inactive Member wrote:

Thanks for the link! That page was amazing.... it's hard to shop around when it comes to speakers, so that's helpful. I ended up really liking the G12T-75 actually.... it seemed to have a smoother sound. I've never heard of the speaker before though, has anyone had any experience with it?

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Re: Brittle Marshall

5/7/2002 4:38 AM

Inactive Member wrote:

oops. read up a bit, and first of all, like the name suggests it's a 75 watt speaker, so loading a 4*12 with this one, if at all possible, would mean that the cab would run at 300 watts.... It's also 8 ohms, and while I think I can switch both cab and amp to that, I don't know how it would sound... so far it's been 16 ohms.

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Re: Brittle Marshall

5/7/2002 6:59 AM

Bruce Maag (15581) wrote:

The G12T-75 is what Marshall is putting in almost all their cabs these days. Not a bad all around speaker.

Ya, a 4x12 cab will provide 300 watts if you select or wire them in series. 150 watts if you go the stereo route.

I still like the Vintage 30 sound myself.

`B`

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