Share This Thread Any guitar teacher found this with their students? Warren Hunt (1477) Open Forum 10/12/2009 10:47:49 AM · 24 Views [Respond to this Message] Australia at this stage is riding the world wide economic storm better than most countries. Recently a number of my students have purchased well known name brand guitars, like Gibson, Fender and one lucky duck a Hamer. One of the ones with a Gibson Les Paul recently asked how I "could put up with just having a Epiphone Les Paul". Mind you I have torn the guts out of it and replaced everything, so its really just the neck and body thats an Epi. So I tried a blind test with him and a number of other students. Most of the time they picked the Epi as the better sounding guitar, but I feel any guitar can play both good and bad in different hands. Both guitars when played by my Gibson beginner sounded terrible to both him and me once he listened to the recordings. Most of my students are stead fast believers that expensive name brand guitars sound, play and look better than their middle of the road counter parts. So my questions are..... Do you feel spending $5000 Vs say $500 make any difference to the way you 1. play the guitar, 2. the sound, 3. the look and 4. do you find this stereo type with your students/friends/self? Sound is my main need and many of you may remember I lost the use of my left arm about 2 years ago in a motor bike accident, which is why I only teach and do recording now. As for look, I have a 1970's Fender Strat you would not step on if you saw it on the footpath nor would you pick it up from a pile of rubbish on the side of the street. Its really in a bad way but plays sweet. I also broke off the bottom horn thats how bad she looks. Her nickname is "Dog Sh-t" casue you wouldn't treat on it. Please note before you reply, I know there are some dodgy brands out there, but I am sort of saying Fender USA Vs MIM, Gibson Vs Epiphone etc, not the $99 copies. Peace to all.

Responses

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/12/2009 2:06:27 PM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: Hey Warren, Here's my take on it. 1) play the guitar I own an LP Studio Plus. It sounds and plays better than most LP's I have tried - standards, customs, etc. that are much more expensive. And the best part is that it is stock. 2. the sound Stock pickups, stock everything except the strings, strap, and strap locks. 3. the look My LP too me, looks better than most LP's. What it doesn't have is the binding. 4. do you find this stereo type with your students? Yes friends? Sometimes, some swear by PRS's. self? No, a good guitar is a good guitar. I love Japanese Strats made between 85-87. They play better than American Strats. All that is needed is to upgrade the electronics. On another note, the electronics that come stock with the JP Strats sound great already.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/12/2009 8:21:58 PM Dan Klotz (180) wrote: As usual, most kids are caught up in brand names. (a lot of adults too) I think that kids learning guitar don't need an expensive instrument until they have earned it. As you said they don't know the difference anyway. Even then, there are a lot of overpriced guitars, and you can get good quality from other brands that are less expensive. I suppose one aspect of that would dbe that maybe a Gibson would hold it's re-sale value longer... My 2 cents: if it plays good and sounds good, its good.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/13/2009 5:32:45 AM Danny Danzi (1871) wrote: Totally agree with you there Dan. I've played guitars costing thousands...and to be honest, I've never felt they felt or sounded as good as they cost. I understand that some vintage guitars will bring in quite a few bucks, but guitars for thousands less can hang right with them. In my opinion, I see paying more than $2000 for even a custom guitar, a waste of money no matter what it looks like or supposedly sounds like. I've got a few junkers here too Warren and I'd put how they feel as well as sound up against anything that costs quadruple what they do. + 100 Dan "if it plays good and sounds good, it's good." Danny Danzi

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/13/2009 8:08:22 AM Ken Richardson (5630) wrote: I have played several American made Fenders including the Eric Johnson Strat and my MIM Strat plays just as well. The American models have better pickups in them. I have an old Ibanez Blazer thats a real gem - I like it better than the Strat! Its a 1980 model from Japan.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/13/2009 2:31:29 PM Chris Pinto (22045) wrote: Hey Danny, This is so true! I used to have a killer Jasmine acoustic ($299), and an awesome Japanese Strat with a 3-Bolt neck ($499). Both guitars were incredible! They both played well, sounded cool, and you simply can't beat the price. When you find something that works, you just go with it! Who the hell cares what name is on the headstock? I don't..... Although, I'm "jones'n" for a new Carvin Archtop (CT6 model) :D But, I agree with your point, I've played a $6000 Brian Moore, a $5000 Jackson, a $5000 PRS, and I gotta tell ya', my $1700 Carvin plays the same, if not better! So, yeah, spending over $2000 (for me, as well) is insane, and a complete waste of money. Chris

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/13/2009 8:14:42 PM Chris Bond II (1707) wrote: Anything I play sounds like me. Technology is such now that most guitars (including cheaper Fenders and Epi's and even some Gibsons , or parts there of) are assembled over seas. Many experts predict the bottom will soon falll out of instrument collecting for several reasons, but mostly because the American makers simply can't justify the price difference.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/14/2009 11:20:08 AM Ken Richardson (5630) wrote: I don't doubt the bottom will fall out. I have seen huge sums for 1950's Gibsons. Yes, they are really something, but the prices have gotten astronomical in some cases!

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/14/2009 11:27:42 AM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: And I bet some play well and some play like crap - You know the story. Old isn't everything as alot of the replicas really fill the void for appearance and tone. The bummer is that even those instruments are on the rise.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 11:22:54 PM Chris Bond II (1707) wrote: Yeah, some things will never change, that's fer sure. I just know that I would never pay that big money for some of those guitars,...way too risky. I actually had a 13 y/o kid come in today who had never heard of Eruption. Damn.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/16/2009 10:57:19 AM Chris Pinto (22045) wrote: Never heard of "Eruption"?????!!!!! JEEESH! Chris

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/16/2009 11:29:22 AM Chris Bond II (1707) wrote: Bob Dylan has said it much better than anyone else (He hasn't heard of Bob Dylan either) Come gather 'round people Wherever you roam And admit that the waters Around you have grown And accept it that soon You'll be drenched to the bone If your time to you Is worth savin' Then you better start swimmin' Or you'll sink like a stone For the times they are a-changin'. Come writers and critics Who prophesize with your pen And keep your eyes wide The chance won't come again And don't speak too soon For the wheel's still in spin And there's no tellin' who That it's namin' For the loser now Will be later to win For the times they are a-changin'. Come senators, congressmen Please heed the call Don't stand in the doorway Don't block up the hall For he that gets hurt Will be he who has stalled There's a battle outside And it is ragin' It'll soon shake your windows And rattle your walls For the times they are a-changin'. Come mothers and fathers Throughout the land And don't criticize What you can't understand Your sons and your daughters Are beyond your command Your old road is Rapidly agin' Please get out of the new one If you can't lend your hand For the times they are a-changin'. The line it is drawn The curse it is cast The slow one now Will later be fast As the present now Will later be past The order is Rapidly fadin' And the first one now Will later be last For the times they are a-changin'.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/16/2009 12:31:13 PM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: And I bet he thinks "Knocking on Heaven's Door" is written by Guns and Roses.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/16/2009 12:27:13 PM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: I'll bet he knew Metallica or Rock Band and his goal was to own either a Jackson, Hamer, Gibson, PRS or one of the other more expensive instruments.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/14/2009 11:25:22 AM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: Prices have gotten nuts. There are just to many great guitars that play and sound really good at better prices. As for the current models, much of the expense are in the aesthetics of the instrument rather the playability. You can't play the binding, custom inlay, custom graphics, innovative design but do look good. Sometimes better on the wall than a performance. Hey - presenting - The Guitar Art Studio! You can look but not touch. Don't even look at it - says Nigel Tufnel

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 11:23:53 PM Chris Bond II (1707) wrote: How about this one here...can I look at it?

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/14/2009 11:27:16 AM Dale Lindsey (7695) wrote: I have played some high-end guitars in music shops that really impressed me, especially in the feel and playability as well as often seeming to have better intonation when compared to the less expensive models. But is that because they go through more trouble to set up the expensive ones properly and don't care so much about the inexpensive ones? -Dale

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/14/2009 1:06:19 PM Ken Richardson (5630) wrote: A lot of the less expensive guitars would benefit from a good setup. Good hardware and electronics would improve many of them too. Remember Les Paul and The Log? He played a 4x4 post with a neck, bridge and pickups on it to prove a solid guitar body would work!

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 6:49:44 AM Warren Hunt (1477) wrote: Thanks to all who replied. I was feeling like I must be weird or something and out there alone. Yep they do seem to be hung up on a name on the headstock.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 6:43:01 AM Warren Hunt (1477) wrote: Randy, Your a man after my own heart then cz I love my Jap Strats too. They just seem better than the USA made ones of the late 80's.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 9:41:08 AM Michael Laurance (1846) wrote: Somebody else that loves Jap Strats! I have 2, well 1.5 anyway. I have a complete one, and a spare neck which will find it's way onto a guitar soon enough. I'm rarer yet, in that I prefer the old Brad Gillis-type with the black necks. They have a thinner profile, almost like an Ibanez of the time. They're fast, and play great. They only problem is finding parts for system 1 tremolo. I was lucky to find a parts trem about a year ago, so I have most of the spare parts.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 10:17:17 AM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: I have been lucky. My system one works well and has only suffered age. As for the trem bar, when I bought the guitar some 10 years ago, I replaced the bar with the All Part bars. I always do that with my Floyd equipped guitars. It's the only way to go and yes, they come in black and gold as well! http://www.allparts.com/Chrome-Tremolo-Arm-p/bp-1000-010.htm

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 10:32:54 AM Michael Laurance (1846) wrote: I'm going to have to try this, because I can't find a bar for it. I've wrapped tape around a std. Strat bar and twisted it in there.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 12:05:59 PM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: I have been using this type of bar for about 25 years - It is totally cool. With the twist collar you can lock it down (ala Jeff Beck) or leave it loose for the grab and play. What's also nice is that you can do that in the middle of a solo in case you want to flutter and then drop on the opposite on the fly - I love it!

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 10:52:13 AM Ken Richardson (5630) wrote: A friend of mine back in high school got one of those Japanese Fenders with the fancy trem - lock nut and fine tuners and all. It was a sweet guitar as I recall! Sunburst finish and 3 singles on it. Michael J. Fox appeared on the cover of Rolling Stone with a very similar one back in '87 or '88. Not sure if his was a USA or Japan model, but it was the one with the fancy high tech trem setup

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 11:58:02 AM Michael Laurance (1846) wrote: I think it was only the Jap. Strats that had the Floyd-type trem and locking nuts.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 12:25:10 PM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: Agreed on that note brother!!!

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 10:03:02 AM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: We have 3 in the house. Couldv'e had 5-6 but my wife might go nuts about it. I have an '85 with the black neck and white body. The cool part is I traded a guitar a long time ago for the matching P-J bass. I have a red single humbucker one as well. It needs a fret job but is a Japanese Squier. Those are awesome well made guitars as well. I am going to rout it out for two humbuckers and drop a Floyd in it. The third one is my sons. We found that one at Guitar Center for about $400. Plays well, sounds great. These Strats totally cook man!!!

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 10:35:29 AM Michael Laurance (1846) wrote: Yeah, I've been thinking about a red body. A while back, I picked up a lot of pickguards, and in there is a red moto, single hum guard. It would look really cool with a black hum and single black volume knob.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 12:49:07 PM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: I lucked out and found the red squier for $125. It even had a JB neck installed but when I am done with it, it will be loaded with a Duncan Jazz in the neck and a 59 in the tail. This is my standard humbucker setup today. I got a red pearl pickguard for the bad boy but still need to mill the front pickup hole. Those old babies had the jack come off of the pick but I will upgrade it to the LP style jack setup. This will be Floyd equipped and I need to do a fret job on this. Made a new friend last month who does a lot of studio/tour work and does guitar repair on the side. We met at a train prototype modelers meet and he told me how to do fret job. He best said that the way I make my 1/87 scale models with such precision, I should have trouble with fret jobs. So my Squier will be my first victim. Like CP suggestion on Stew Mac for parts, my new friend also suggest them for tools to perform the neck job. Look out world, here I come!

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 3:47:26 PM Michael Laurance (1846) wrote: I lucked out too. I found the guitar for about $100. It wasn't in good working order, but with work, it's great now. I installed an SSS pickguard with a mini JB and 59.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 5:11:09 PM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: I like those deals. The following year I found a Chandler reverse headstock guitar single humbucker for $160. It had a Duncan JB with the System 1 Trem. Swapped the trem for a Floyd, (so now I have extra parts for the Strat) left the JB, changed the jack, volume pot and cleaned it up - the guitar plays and sounds great! What is really cool is that the Chandler parts (neck and soloist style body) alone used to retail for about $600 list back about 20 years ago. I want to find more of these great deals --- gimme, gimme, gimme!

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/16/2009 7:26:13 AM Michael Laurance (1846) wrote: I'm curious about the conversion to the floyd. I wanted to do it on my strat, but it didn't line up at all. Like, not even close. Did you use one that wasn't notched at all, or how did you do that?

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/16/2009 12:29:29 PM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: I was lucky. Mine lined up with no problems. All I did was rout the back area for the springs. The depth of the springs were very shallow and they would bind on the body. A nice rout remedied that.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/16/2009 2:09:08 PM Michael Laurance (1846) wrote: God bless Mr. Dremel. I wouldn't be without one. I've had to do that so many times, even on stock guitars. QC misses alot.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/16/2009 2:29:00 PM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: Ditto brother on the Dremel. I have two - one battery operatied and the standard AC type. I think about having a router sometimes as well as the Dremel doesn't have enough torque for pickup routing. It just takes a long time.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/16/2009 2:44:26 PM Ken Richardson (5630) wrote: I have a Dremel too.. they are great! I broke down and got a real router.. its much more powerful, but not as much fun! The Dremel is the little engine that could!

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/16/2009 2:48:08 PM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: Ken - What kind of router did you get as I will probably look for one.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/20/2009 7:56:02 AM Ken Richardson (5630) wrote: Randy, Its a Skil brand. You can find it at Lowes. It was actually a gift- was going to get one and got it as a present first. My dad had a Craftsman router several years back. I used it quite a bit. Ken

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/20/2009 9:59:41 AM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: Cool! Besides X-mas is coming! Any specific bit that you use?

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/21/2009 7:59:20 AM Ken Richardson (5630) wrote: My bits are the cheaper ones. I recently read that the carbide bit is recomended over the HSS (steel) bit. The carbide bit is supposed to stay sharp and last longer and leave a smoother surface. When I start up again on a project, I may get one of those carbide bits Most of my routing has been to cut simple grooves with a flat bottom, wood removal or to rout for a pickup. I do a plunge cut then rout out what I need.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/21/2009 11:27:29 AM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: Do you have or use template for routing pickups or use a marker and eyeball it? You must have a good set of clamps as well to hold the bodies down.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/21/2009 3:18:16 PM Ken Richardson (5630) wrote: I have just marked it with a pencil and routed carefully, taking out just a little wood as I go. I have only routed for one pickup - humbucker. I routed a blank piece of wood to make a bridge for an acoustic several years back. I did some routing to make a picture frame a while back. For that I set the router up so that it put the groove where it needed to go. Did a little routing for the control cavity on a bass too. You do need good clamps. There are some one hand ones called Quick Grip by Irwin that I use a lot now. Most likely a good straight bit will be what you want. The depth of cut and setup of the router is important to get right before you start.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/21/2009 4:04:45 PM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: Thanks Bro! I gotta take the plunge and get that guitar done for myself. Not only will it have the neck pickup routed but I will be doing some work also when I map out the Floyd Rose. This will allow my to pull back the harmonic (M3rd - P4th) on the 4th fret. This is also the first guitar that I will attempt a fret job as the frets are quite worn.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/22/2009 9:12:58 AM Ken Richardson (5630) wrote: You are welcome Randy. I need to get back on my project too

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/22/2009 12:48:03 PM Ken Richardson (5630) wrote: Stewart McDonald has a lot of tools for repairs, and you may find useful things at Grizzly woodworking ( including instrument kits and parts)

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/22/2009 1:37:30 PM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: I was introduced to that company by a new friend in September at Prototype meet. We both putz with 1/87 scale trains and found out both of us are musicians. You could say he more than I as he makes a living at it. We talked about guitar repair and such. He mentioned Stewart McDonald as the #1 source for guitar repair. In fact he was the one that told me and gave me the confidence on doing a fret job. We shouldn't leave out brother Chris Pinto too as he has been plugging them over the last six months as well.

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 3:48:32 PM Cinda Private (4763) wrote: When I go guitar shopping, I play ALL of the guitars acoustically. The reason is the amplifiers amplify the resonant sound of the guitar. If a guitar sounds bad acoustically, it will sound bad electronically. I was on a business trip and was going to be in Co for about 45 straight days. I purchased a $99 Squier Bullet. I played about 45 guitars in 2 or 3 different music stores. When I plugged it in, the owner was like "wow... that's a nice sounding strat" - when he saw it was a Bullet he was surprised. Sometimes, we as musicians forget to use our ears. Cin

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/15/2009 5:13:40 PM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: You hit on the nose Cinda! The acoustics of a guitar comes first along with the playability. If the guitar sounds great acoustically, you can get sounds out of it even if you have to change the pickups. On another note, where have you been? Missed ya 'round here!

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/16/2009 9:08:36 AM Cinda Private (4763) wrote: It's the combination of being really busy at work and dating... between those 2 things, I hardly have been getting a chance to play or hang out on line!

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/16/2009 11:26:35 AM Dale Lindsey <Non-Member> wrote: Well, you need to log on more often and give lots of details about the dating because we are all just a bunch of nosy busybodies with too much time on our hands. J/K (or am I?) ;~) -Dale

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/16/2009 12:24:58 PM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: I second Dale's post!!! Too much time, not! Nosy - definitely!

• Respond to this Re: Any guitar teacher found this with their students? 10/16/2009 12:23:31 PM Randy Hano (5374) wrote: Hopefully your date(s) also play as well. Or they are going to get really jealous as the relationship progresses. Great to see you post again though.

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