Share This Thread Question: Sorting out Major and Minor Penatonic Scales Tim Brown (7) Instructional Forum 2/15/2007 9:10:22 PM · 61 Views [Respond to this Message] Ok, if you're playing a blues song (E,A,B)for instance, what scale would you use? Playing the C# Minor Penatonic, which is the minor for E Major (E,A,B)? This seems to make sense in theory. Or playing the E Minor Penatonic which is the minor for G Major (and if so, isn't this E Minor Penatonic scale basically a mode of the G Major Scale, which to even further confuse things, you are trying to play E,A,B)? If anyone can make sense of this, I would appreciate it. Rgds, Tim

Responses

• Respond to this Re: Question: Sorting out Major and Minor Penatonic Scales 2/16/2007 2:01:34 AM Alan Roberts (10000) wrote: You've got yourself all confused , there. If you look at the key of E major you should get 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 E - F# - G# - A - B - C# - D# To get the major pentatonic you take the 1-2-3-5-6 of that scale 1 - 2 - 3 5 - 6 E - F# - G# B - C# To get the minor pentatonic you need the 1-b3-4-5-b7 1 b3- 4 - 5 b7 E G - A - B D Dig through the lessons on this site,plus the Basics section at te top of the page. That'll get ya' goin' ! Peace, Alan

• Respond to this Re: Question: Sorting out Major and Minor Penatonic Scales 2/16/2007 11:05:10 AM Jon Riley (9692) wrote: Where you're getting confused is that you're expecting BLUES (invented by African-Americans, intuitively, based partly on European folk and hymns, partly on ancestral African modes) to make sense according to THEORY (invented by dead white European males, trained in classical music). ;-) Blues - in the simplest possible conventional theory terms - is a hybrid of major and parallel minor keys, not major and relative minor. ("Parallel" means scales that share the same root note - like E major and E minor; "relative" means sharing the same set of notes, but with a different root - like E major and C# minor.) IOW - as Alan says - in the key of E major, it's the E minor pentatonic that's relevant, not C# minor. The concept of a "blues key", in fact, is one that's in between what we call "major" and "minor", or a mix of both. What happens is that the 3rd of the E blues scale can be anywhere between minor (G) and major (G#). This is why we bend the G note. Try bending it less than a half-step, and you'll hear the real blues 3rd. And the 7th is always flat (D). You can bend it to D#, but only on the B chord. (Or you can bend it up to E any time you like.) Likewise, the 4th can be bent up to the b5 or 5 - or anywhere in between 4 and 5. (The b5 - Bb in E major - is usually added to the pentatonic to make the so-called "blues scale", but it's really only a movable variation on 4 or 5.) The blues is a music with movable pitches - that's what makes it real hard for western theory to comprehend or analyse.

• Respond to this Re: Question: Sorting out Major and Minor Penatonic Scales 2/20/2007 8:20:40 AM Clay Daigle (3365) wrote: "Where you're getting confused is that you're expecting BLUES (invented by African-Americans, intuitively, based partly on European folk and hymns, partly on ancestral African modes) to make sense according to THEORY (invented by dead white European males, trained in classical music)." Love it..lol

• Respond to this Re: Question: Sorting out Major and Minor Penatonic Scales 2/20/2007 2:49:27 PM Alan Roberts (10000) wrote: That was good, wasn't it ? Peace, Alan

• Respond to this Re: Question: Sorting out Major and Minor Penatonic Scales 2/16/2007 4:36:12 PM Adriano Parmiggianno (5751) wrote: Minor Pentatonic 1 b3 5 b7 11 1 A C E G D A E G B D A E B D F# A E B F# A C# E B F# C# E G# B F# C# G# B D# F# C# G# D# F# A# C# G# D# A# Bb C# Db E# F G# Ab D# Eb A# Bb F Ab C Eb Bb F C Eb G Bb F C G Bb D F C G D F A C G D A C E G D A 6 1 3 5 9 6 Major Pentatonic

• Respond to this Re: Question: Sorting out Major and Minor Penatonic Scales 2/18/2007 1:38:56 PM Robert Chiefari (5087) wrote: Tim, My question is - why would you bother with a maj pent in a blues tune? ...that would sound country, or southern rock. I take a very simplistic approach to min pents (leads) - if you have a rhythm in E-A-B, your key is "E" so E min pent works thru all 3 changes. You can of course jump pents with the chord changes - E min pent, A min pent, B min pent (SRV style). My 2 cents. -Bob

• Respond to this Re: Question: Sorting out Major and Minor Penatonic Scales 2/18/2007 6:51:05 PM Alan Roberts (10000) wrote: There's a ton of classic blues that are in major, though. You'd really be taking a lot of liberties with the tunes if you flipped all the single note stuff to minor keys. Peace, Alan

• Respond to this Re: Question: Sorting out Major and Minor Penatonic Scales 2/20/2007 7:03:52 AM Jon Riley (9692) wrote: But some old blues does sound country-ish. Boundaries get blurred! ;-) Vintage acoustic blues uses the major 3rd and 6th quite a lot (which, with the major triad, makes up the major pent). They do tend to bend or slide up to the major 3rd (both on vocal and guitar) - but major 3rd it often is. Big Bill Broonzy is a good example of a bluesman who liked his major 3rds. Admittedly these were combined more often with b7s than with 6ths, but 6ths often occurred as passing notes. OTOH, it sounds wrong to use an A minor pent on the IV chord in a blues. The C note has no place in a blues in the key of E. It has to be C#. This is because blues is a "modal" music - it keeps the same scale over all the chords. That scale has a movable 3rd (between minor and major), and a b7 - and if there is a 2nd and 6th they will both be major. In the key of E that means: E (F#) G-G# A B (C#) D (D#) The D#, if used, will only occur on the V chord, and represents the b7 raised to fit the chord. (Otherwise if the D is bent, it goes all the way up to the root.) The additional #4/b5 (A#/Bb) is important, but not really a scale note in its own right; it's a decoration or alteration of 4 or 5. It never occurs without 4 or 5 alongside it, or without a bend or slide up to or away from 4 or 5. We tend to reduce this scale to the minor pent (E G A B D), but that doesn't mean we can freely apply the minor pent of each chord. The major pent of each chord may just work - but only because it doesn't clash too much with the scale of the key. The minor pents of the I and V also fit the key scale pretty well, but the minor pent of IV doesn't. The exception would be in a minor key blues, where all the chords were minor. But even here, the b6 of the key may not be appropriate as a solo note (even when it's in the chord being played). It depends on the song, and what effect you want.

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