I'm sorry if my paragon comment in the Tone thread was part of that, I honestly didn't mean it in a derogatory way. I just wanted to help you out in using paragon. In retrospect, it definitely didn't come out that way, though, which is my fault. Such is the nature of writing things on the internet, though. It's hard to write what you mean, and if you do manage to do so, half the people reading it will take it the wrong way anyways.

-Tom

I second Web's advice.. and a 1, and a 2..

I understand how ya feel, and you have the right. in a mixing pot like this, we get every different personality.

check this rhythm:
we have troops in harms way. why?
I, as many noters have, gave the full term of service. why?
freedom. yours, mine, theirs, however it tastes.
I understand what it's like to think folks want you to be different. so, let 'em. it's your right, and theirs. even George W has the right to use whatever terminology he likes.

this is not a dressing down. your fine, you have the right.
so, where's that AAT

Chris3

Adrian, chill my friend, you are an actve member of WN and you give a lot of input, and a lot of reactions, all of what comes from you, and you alone and nobody will ever change that, or change you. just be how you are dont let someones oppinion ever change that. Peace Doug

It's been ridiculous for a long time.

Learn to ignore people calling you names. Nothing good comes out of answering. By answering you become the one looking stupid.

I've followed the debates. With regard to your comments and lessons, try approaching with a little more humility. Many people here are brilliant guitarists/thinkers/whatever (with way more experience than you) and may be annoyed by your stomping around, trying to teach them stuff in a rude and arrogant manner. Reading through the debates, I read your comments like you think the internet is your domain alone, and everyone else here are your guests. On that note you are asking for all the trouble you get.

Try to reevaluate yourself. Maybe your intellectual sophistication, life experience and musical skill level is not what you think it is. Maybe you don't know how to express yourself properly. Maybe something else is wrong. A lot of the comments you interpreted as rude in the debates, looked for me like attempts to make you understand or think about your position.

Pederson,
I disagree with many of your statements. But I really don't feel like argueing; this is not the right place to do that anyway.
Adrian

Please don't call me Pederson. First of all you're not an authority, which makes it a rude and arrogant thing to do. Secondly you spelled my name wrong, which is rude and embarrasing. I'm beginning to see why you're getting the feedback you get...and will keep getting unless you learn some etiquette.

Which statements did you disagree with? You can't just drop a bomb like that. At least give me a chance to defend it. It's like saying: "You suck, but I won't say why"...

Mr. Pedersen,
Sorry if I acted rude to you. You have to realize that on wholenote, not many people really mind if they accidently mispell a name or use the wrong etiquette (as long as they don't sware). I am acquainted with that. Thus, if most people are okay with those ethics, then I think that you must be a bit too sensitive comparitively speaking.



I'm beginning to see why you're getting the feedback you get...and will keep getting unless you learn some etiquette.



Let me ask you a question, how many people on wholenote do you think find it rude if someone else doesn't use the proper etiquette or greeting? Apparently, I have found none. All the feedback I get is not because I don't use proper etiquette, it's because I used too many "big" words. These big words makes people think that I am bossy. Then, the people try and bring me down. That statement of yours in my opinion is very wrong.



Many people here are brilliant guitarists/thinkers/whatever (with way more experience than you) and may be annoyed by your stomping around, trying to teach them stuff in a rude and arrogant manner.


I hope that it doesn't bother you if I say" "That made me angry".



I hardly ever debate actually. Just because I did in these posts these last couple of days doesn't mean I do it all of the time.



I don't think I ever teach members stuff in a rude and arrogant manner. In fact, I try to avoid it. I want some evidence of that.



Reading through the debates, I read your comments like you think the internet is your domain alone, and everyone else here are your guests. On that note you are asking for all the trouble you get.



You said in the statement that "I read your comments like you think the internet is the domain alone." Maybe you just read it the wrong way!



The reason why I may sound like a smart beep is because I never ever want to leave an argument like a loser. I always try and make my points and finish my statements; like I did in this post.



Nothing good comes out of answering. By answering you become the one looking stupid.



Really? Do you think that I always answer the wrong way to offenses? Stupid isn't a good word to use you know. What if someone called me a sware word and I say: "You can get kicked off of wholenote for saying that, don't do it again." I have replied like that before, which saved that person from getting kicked off. I forgot what post it was.



Anyway, you should think about this post. Like I said before, I really don't like to argue. But I guess you wanted to have one.
Adrian

All the feedback I get is not because I don't use proper etiquette, it's because I used too many "big" words.

Adrian,

That's quite untrue. I have seen more than a dozen replies with varying levels of objection to your addressing people by their last name. In fact yesterday I replied myself to this very issue. Even you replied once with a bold "dave" because Dave Magaro didn't want you to call him Magaro! It was kind of funny actually.

Adrian, I think its really important that you realise that people here mean you no harm. We offer this feedback for your own good. You clearly have a fascination for language and developing you expression - which is a good thing. What these threads should be teaching you is that language should remain as concise as possible whilst retaining all the detail you require. Use bigger words when simpler ones will not convey what you need them to. When resorting to these bigger words make sure you know what they really mean and what other words come with them.

If you take this approach, nobody will raise any objections to your mode of expression.

I hope you understand now that it's not personal. You really shouldn't get upset because you said yourself that you were trying these words out on WN. You must have expected a response if you weren't sure what you were doing with your words.

In the end what you have learned is something far greater than you expected to learn - something about the art of true communication! How best to interact with others - how not to irritate people by crudely starting with their last name. How intentional over-sophistication of language leads to your message being lost.

All valuable lessons my friend. Don't let it get you down though. Just take something from these responses and move on. We are your friends and as any real friend would, we say something if it bothers us. Your challenge is to use the suggestions given as a way to improve your expression rather than getting upset and defensive and deciding that it's everybody else's problem and they have misunderstood you.

There have been misunderstandings - and that's the very point - to try to reduce them!

Take care Adrian.

Andy

That's quite untrue. I have seen more than a dozen replies with varying levels of objection to your addressing people by their last name.

Andy,
I want to make my point here. I meant that wholenote members (before these endless posts have started) have not noticed or commented at all on how I addessed people. Now they are starting to try and anger me. lol!. That is not always the case of course. Some like Mikkel Pedersen are telling me for my own good.



Adrian

Adrian,

Sometimes people don't say anything about something that bothers them until another thing happens and then their feelings come flooding out. I believe that is why you never heard any criticism about how you address people before. One thing you can be sure of, the members of WN are not so small that they want to cut somebody down for no reason.

For the record, I found your form of address a little impertinent but also quite amusing. I don't think it is a good way to speak to people but I could handle it. Your constant use of inapproriate words bothered me more.

Basically everybody has different things that push their buttons. You clearly managed to press a hell of a lot of buttons around here. If you don't care - keep doing it.

I do want to reiterate that I have no personal problem with you. Any comments I have added have been my attempt to help you get out of this arkward situation you have got yourself into.

Andy

And it would be, even, less awkward if you'all would take this conversation to the private level. I'm not referring to anybody in particular but you all know who you are.
That's all I've got to say about that.

Have a Nice Day,
Kevin

You are right Kevin, I have nothing further to say about this issue.

Andy,
I am actually a quite polite when I meet people in person. On the internet however it is different; I may seem like I am a different person. I have a teacher (coach prefer) that actually calls on students by their last names. The reason why I address wholenoters by their last names is because I don't know whether they are an adult, or a young adult. Sometimes they don't even indicate this on their homepage. I guess some find it rude, so I will stop. No big deal.



Adrian

I don't mind waht people call me...Just as long as I know IT's me they want! If U call me ''Idiot'' that's fine/...I know it's me you want!!!

Usually it takes a lot to annoy me!!!!

pip

Adrian,
Everyone I know dislikes getting their name misspelled. And if done in an otherwise rude context it just gets worse. I told you not to address me the way you did because it's not appropriate to address people like that.

And I think many people on WholeNote dislikes when others don't use proper etiquette. That leads to misunderstandings and often offends others when not meant to. You can't make up your own protocol and think that people will understand you. It's like driving in the wrong side of the road and think that everybody else will do the same. It doesn't work.

There can be more than one reason for the feedback you get. Using big words stirred up some bad feedback. Addressing people like lesser individuals gave you some more bad feedback.

And I wasn't trying to make you angry. Actually I don't see why you would be. Perhaps you are just too sensitive. I was just telling you how I interpreted your behaviour here. Even though you might not intend to be rude and arrogant, that is what the netiquette suggests you are. YOU are the only one responsible for using proper etiquette or protocol to project your views in an understandable manner. If you don't, then your views will be misinterpreted. Maybe not by all, but by some.

And maybe I did read your comments the wrong way. But with so many people offended by them, making fun of you and the likes, chances are that you wrote them the wrong way.

And no one wants to look like a loser. But if you lose, then there really isn't much to do about it. To keep blabbering only makes it worse.

You say:
What if someone called me a sware word and I say: "You can get kicked off of wholenote for saying that, don't do it again."
Then you're the stupid one. And yes, I mean stupid. If someone insults you in that manner it's to provoke that kind of response. 99.9% of the time the person already know the rules, yet decides to break them. It's up to the administration to warn people. Your warnings has no effect at all. So you wasted precious time giving someone insulting you what he wanted. Thus, stupid. Ignoring insults like that is the only way to be the "bigger person". The only way to make you look like "the winner" in other readers minds.

And no, I didn't want to argue with you. My comment was an attempt to help you behave properly.

Mr. Pedersen Sir,



Everyone I know dislikes getting their name misspelled.



I won't mind is someone mispells my name. Flo Flo (even though his name is obvious) wouldn't mind it either. In my opinion, you exaggerate your comments. "Everyone you know." I highly doubt that.



I told you not to address me the way you did because it's not appropriate to address people like that.



I understand that you told me not to address you like that. This is not a formal place! I wanted to emphasize that! Wholenote is a regular forum. On internet forums, most of the time, people are rather informal about etiquette. Go on any other guitar forum and you'll see.



There can be more than one reason for the feedback you get. Using big words stirred up some bad feedback. Addressing people like lesser individuals gave you some more bad feedback.



Yes. Using big words did trigger the mess. I know. But like I said before, people were just trying to bother me for fun by pointing out minor details of my writing style. Let me reiterate, this is not a formal place for etiquette. If I were on a formal website, people would be pointing out information like this.



Perhaps you are just too sensitive. I was just telling you how I interpreted your behaviour here. Even though you might not intend to be rude and arrogant, that is what the netiquette suggests you are.



Trust me. Many people would be willing to argue about this. I am not a sensitive person. My friends would be doing what I am doing right now if they were I (read that carefully). Your posts made me indignant because of the fact that you talked about information that didn't need to be talked about. Etiquette is an example. Etiquette is not necessary on wholenote.



Then you're the stupid one. And yes, I mean stupid. If someone insults you in that manner it's to provoke that kind of response. 99.9% of the time the person already know the rules, yet decides to break them. It's up to the administration to warn people. Your warnings has no effect at all. So you wasted precious time giving someone insulting you what he wanted. Thus, stupid. Ignoring insults like that is the only way to be the "bigger person". The only way to make you look like "the winner" in other readers minds.



I get why you said stupid this time. I found a member that said the F word on this site and people told him not to say that. That person who originally said that word provoked a person. Maybe the person who said the word will adapt to wholenote and change! Maybe the 0.1% of your ratio (99.9%) was used by a person that time.



You said that ignoring insults is the only way to feeling like a "bigger person." Well, I actually felt like a mature person and told the person who insulted me to never do that again so that he/she can learn a lesson not to. Period.



And no, I didn't want to argue with you. My comment was an attempt to help you behave properly.



My behavior actually is up to the standard for sites like this. It's fine. "Proper etiquette" is not required on sites like this.



Adrian

Adrian,

If you feel your behaviour is above reproach then keep on with it - see where it leads you.

I find that most people who defend themnselves to the very end are not entirely honest with themselves.

You appear unwilling to accept responsibility for most of the reactions you receive. Go ahead, blame everybody else, but you've been warned. This is a community in which people need to make an effort to find the best method of communication which maximises positive exchanges and minimises negative ones or misunderstandings. In my opinion you are asking everybody else to change but you don't want to change yourself.

I know of no other forums where referring to other members as you please, without regard to how they feel about, it is ok. There is etiquette and it is important because without it comes a loss of respect.

I expect you to ignore this advice but I thought I'd give it one more shot. Any further trouble you get yourself into is entirely your responsibility. You have been made full aware of how people feel and have received healthy constructive advice. The rest is up to you.

Andy

Adrian,

I can only repeat what I said. I meant every word. And I did not exaggerate.

Addressing people by their last name is a formal thing to do. Yet you claim fretbuzz is an informal place. Which one is it?

People made fun of you, because you didn't use proper protocol. They weren't laughing with you. (I'm not telling you this to anger you, but to make you see the light).

Etiquette is not necessary on wholenote.

That sums up our difference in opinion quite well. Before you can understand why netiquette works, I can't use your comments/lessons/resources/whatever for anything (they're completely worthless to me, and everybody else not knowing your protocol) as I/we will just misunderstand you. Only you, then, can decode the true meaning from your printed words. Thus, I see no point in continuing this.

At a last note you give a lot of effort into trying to make me think about you messages. Try to spin that comment 180 degrees (you were good at maths, right?). Some people here are trying to nudge you in the right direction in different ways...think about the fact that they might be right.

Good luck.

Mikkel

Mr. Pedersen,
I am curious. If I wrote that you were completely right, how would you reply?



Many said that addressing people by their last name was not the right way to address people. Remember how I said that I didn't need to be formal but I thought that addressing people by their last name is easier because you don't have to look up if the person is an adult. Then you said it is formal. I am confused about that. But to remove all of that confusion, I will start naming people by their first name. From now on



Anyway, you stated that everything (assuming everything) that I created is useless to you. What can I do to improve it? I can't see why someone would think that my lessons are pointless to try and learn from. Do you think that I should remove the "big" words from them to make them useful to you? Please let me know.

So what has happened to "..I didn't come to this site for people to tell me this. I came here to learn more information about guitar.." ?

Mo

That person went to the moon actually. He's not coming back until.....he does.
Adrian

Adrian,

If you told me that I was right, I'd probably say 'Great!'

About addressing people: 'Great'. But why would you look up if people are adults?

About usefulness: Reread what I wrote. The explanation is there. Maybe look up the word 'netiquette', as I'm not sure that you know what it covers. Not all points are to be used everywhere, but it's up to the people in the community to use them until they learn which ones can be ignored in the given domain.

Best regards,
Mikkel

Mikkel,
I finally agreed to most of what you said in your previous post.



Netiquette (neologism, a portmanteau formed from "Internet etiquette") is a catch-all term for the conventions of politeness recognized on Usenet, in mailing lists, and on other electronic forums such as internet message boards



When I first saw the word netiquette in your message, I thought that you mispelled it since you hit an additional key. But then I saw it again and realized that you didn't.



Before you can understand why netiquette works, I can't use your comments/lessons/resources/whatever for anything (they're completely worthless to me, and everybody else not knowing your protocol) as I/we will just misunderstand you.



That is the only comment that perplexes (yes perplexes) because I wondered why you would find my lessons/resources/comments completely worthless. I don't mean to sound conceited about myself but I have found people that made great remarks about my lessons. You should see my alternate picking lesson. Anyway, if I interpreted your comment incorrectly, then please paraphrase.



By the way, how would you feel if I said that your phrase: Maybe look up the word 'netiquette' isn't grammatically correct. You would probably say that I made an irrelevant comment. Well those were the type of comments that I had received some time ago by other individuals. They just won't stop bugging me about it!
Adrian

Adrian,
I said useless because if we can't agree on some universal way to communicate properly, it won't be clear to others what you mean. This is especially important when communicating in writing, as you can't see facial expressions, body language or hear the tone of voice.

For instance if proper protocol suggests that using all capital letters (all caps) denotes shouting, you shouldn't use all caps, unless you mean to shout.

If you use words that don't universally mean what you want them to, you will be misunderstood. Maybe not by all, but by some. The same goes for unintentionally emphasizing something that shouldn't be emphasized. And with being understood as the ultimate goal of communication, this is a problem. Especially if you project yourself as a teacher, as is the case with your lessons. If I can't be sure we "talk the same language", I can't be sure you mean what I read. The protocols/netiquette have been in development around the world since the beginning of global communication, and breaking them might offend people. Many domains have their own set of protocols though, and it's wise to simply adapt to them (by observing how others use them) to avoid provoking people in the domain. Most of them are however built upon the basic usenet "netiquette".

Generally humility is the best approach when in doubt. That way you won't step on any toes, and you'll most likely get kind feedback most of the time. It's all up to you offcourse. Some people like to be arrogant bastards and disliked by the majority for some reason. :-)

And in regard to my grammar. I do make mistakes, though I do me best not to. (Often I wouldn't know I did it, and rely on people correcting me, as english is my second language). When corrected I usually respond with a 'thank you', unless the mistake is some triffle. Then I'd just ignore it. So, thank you. But starting a discussion about the relevance of the correction won't get anyone anywhere. It'll be a complete waste of time, and people will most likely end up being angry at eachother.

Best regards,
Mikkel

Mikkel,
I finally agreed to your entire statement. Great!



Anyway, I guess if netiquette is the internet protocol (even though I was ignorant about it), then I should obey it.



I guess it's best if I revise all of my lessons.



Being modest and humble is a great way to communicate because it's suitable for all audiences. The reason why I actually made myself talk with eloquence is because I wanted the reader to know that the lesson was made by an intelligent person. I am not that intelligent, so I need to talk my age!



Thank you for your comments. What an adventure that was! lol



So anyway, what was your first language? I viewed your homepage and saw that your preferences were blues and some classic metal. I also noticed (I hope this doesn't upset you) that your father passed away. You must have felt agony. Sorry.
Adrian

Dear Adrian,

Whenever I have people contact me by phone, that I do not know, I do expect them to address me as Mr. Gacsi.

It is the sales people that call me by my first name and that alerts me to whom they are and the conversation almost immediately gets terminated

In the case of this site, being more friendly, people use my nick name of Charlie. Formality becomes less important as I feel that on this site we are all equal members having a common interest, common ground, to interchange ideas or requests for information and that is find with me.

Charlie

Hi Adrian,


I noticed Maxixe as one of your favorite recordings. Which version do you dig?

Anthony

Anthony,
I can only say that I dig the recording on the instructional C.D. that I got.
Adrian

YOu should check out John Williams interpretation on Jungles of Paraguay. Flawless!