Share This Thread Out of tune arounf 14th fret Jamie Harper (181) Building/Repair Forum 2/2/2006 3:25:07 PM · 61 Views [Respond to this Message] Hello, I've done a search and someone had the same kind of problem but I wasn't sure on the answer so I thought I would ask again. I've noticed that the strings (particularily on B string) on my guitar are out of tune (flat) at the 12th fret and beyond (if I tune it by fretting the note of the 12th fret on each string the lower frets become out of tune) . I got the impression from the search I did that I had to unscrew the bridge and move it, but is this necessary? or is there another way? Is there a site that gives a sort of step by step demonstration? Thanks, Jamie

Responses

• Respond to this Re: Out of tune arounf 14th fret 2/2/2006 5:32:04 PM Chuck Stensrud (13022) wrote: Jamie, Before you make any adjustments to the bridge, you need to intonate the guitar. This involves comparing the open string to the string fretted at the twelfth (or the open and the 12th fret harmonic). I find that the open and fretted string usually get me close enough with a good tuner. When intonating, you adjust the saddle for each string so that the open and fretted at 12th are both in tune. If you can do this for each string, there is no need to move the bridge. When adjusting, if the string fretted at the 12th is higher in pitch than the open string, move the saddle away from the nut, and vice-versa. Unless you are talking about an accoustic, the saddles are screw-adjustable. Guitars, unlike other instruments, like piano and harp, or even violin, cellor and bass viol, used fixed positions along a single string to make many notes. Due to physics, it doesn't work perfectly. Thus, a perfectly intonated guitar will always be out of tune at some positions on each string. This is true to some extent even with schemes like the Buzz Feiten tuning system which makes nominal corrections on each string. As a guitar player, this is a problem you will always live with. However, a properly intonated guitar (open = 12th fret) will almost always produce the best result. A final note: changing string guages almost always requires re-intonation. It's not a difficult process, and it is one well worth learning, rather than paying a guitar shop or guitar tech. chuck

• Respond to this Re: Out of tune arounf 14th fret 2/2/2006 6:28:39 PM Travis McNeely (776) wrote: YES SIR!! Not many people know that about EVERY FRET BEING IN TUNE thing being against the laws or physics. think about it. the return note (12th fret) CAN'T be along the same straight-edged fret to be accurate for EACH AN EVERY string. this is why my brain has often pondered and dreampt a dog-toothed or slanted fret guitar with perfect tonality. Does such an instrument exist??

• Respond to this Re: Out of tune arounf 14th fret 2/2/2006 7:55:48 PM David Mackie (10592) wrote: "this is why my brain has often pondered and dreampt a dog-toothed or slanted fret guitar with perfect tonality." Look here. Actually, this won't be perfect either. Just like with the BF system and Earvana nut, there are going to be compromises here and there, but the overall effect is much closer to perfect all-over intonation than most standard production methods. (meaning the Fretwave system is comparable to the other two systems, not necessarily superior, and that the other two systems seem to provide excellent results. I don't have personal experience with any of these other than brief trials of Washburn guitars set up to BF specs, but with no tuner to get it exactly right)

• Respond to this Re: Out of tune arounf 14th fret 2/3/2006 10:07:43 AM Andy Wood (5104) wrote: It's really not worth getting too obsessed over because you have to remember that the equal temperament tuning system itself is a compromise and is far from perfect. Then, even if you got an instrument where the fundamental notes were perfectly in tune (equal temperament-wise), the harmonics within the notes will never ring perfectly with each other. This idea of tuning perfection is an illusion. You need to accept the vagaries of the system and enjoy the general effect. Don't get me wrong, I do tune very carefully so my guitar sounds as good as it can, but I know it will never sound perfect no matter what I do to it. Even a digital keyboard will never sound perfect becuase equal temperament isn't perfect - it's just equally good/bad in all keys. Andy

• Respond to this Re: Out of tune arounf 14th fret 2/3/2006 9:39:52 AM Jamie Harper (181) wrote: Thanks a lot for the advice! But I only managed to intonate 5 strings...the B string still doesn't sound good at the 12th fret :S! I turned the screw and moved the saddle but the note still sounds flat. It worked perfectly well for the other strings. (I've got a gibson/les paul style guitar) Thanks, Jamie

• Respond to this Re: Out of tune arounf 14th fret 2/3/2006 10:09:45 AM Andy Wood (5104) wrote: Are you using brand new strings? A faulty string can cayse this. Even if it is new, try another string because they can be uneven and impossible to intonate. Andy

• Respond to this Re: Out of tune arounf 14th fret 2/3/2006 6:10:59 PM Robert Chiefari (5087) wrote: Jamie, Do you have the stock Gibson bridge? I had a similar problem with the G on my LP always being out. It was the tune-o-matic bridge saddle that was worn out - I was also breaking the G alot because the saddle was so deeply grooved. You can replace it with stock - or go to a roller type bridge. (If you have a vintage Gibson, you may want to keep it original). -Bob

• Respond to this Re: Out of tune arounf 14th fret 2/3/2006 10:40:13 PM Charles Gacsi (42523) wrote: I tune my guitar in the same manner as Chuck does. The open harmonic at the 12th fret corresponds with the stopped note at the 12th fret. If off I adjust the distance of the bridge location. Mentally it works this way for me. If the stopped note is flat that means that the distance between the nut and the 12th fret is too long... there fore to bring in tune you need to shorten the overall distance as little bit. Moving the point on the bridge. Conversely if the stopped not is sharp that means that the distance between the nut and the 12 fret is too short... therefore to bring it in tune you need to lengthen the over all distance very sightly. If each string is adjustable at the bridge it is workable. If each string is not then you have to work with what you have. I have a bi directional bridge so it is workable for me. Charlie

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