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Subs

Peter Kiley (890)

Guitar Theory Forum · 11/24/2005 8:02 AM
I'm attempting to wrap my mind around substitutions and I was wondering if anybody could point me in the right direction as far as lessons, books, etc...
Thanks for the help
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Re: Subs

11/24/2005 1:26 PM

Adriano Parmiggianno (6926) wrote:

Frederick Burton has a great lesson = "Lesson #806: Substitution Rules".

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Re: Subs

11/24/2005 8:46 PM

Wilfred Bustar (865) wrote:

There is a song on The Who's "Meaty, Beaty, Big and Bouncy called "Substitute" that you can listen to to keep your interest.

(Thats a joke, but IMO one of the best songs ever written):)



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Re: Subs

11/25/2005 8:10 AM

Christian Miller (1937) wrote:

Yeah, it's one of my favourites too.

You can learn a lot of harmony from ole powerchord Pete, y'know... Big fan of jazz guitar, apparently.



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Re: Substitute

11/26/2005 7:34 PM

Wilfred Bustar (865) wrote:

Well the interesting harmonic intros not here but hey its a fun one to sing-enjoy all-try it

just to lighten things up for awhile- :)



D G D
You think we look pretty good together
D G D
You think my shoes are made of leather
Em G D/A Em G
But I'm a substitute for another guy
D/A Em G D/A Em G
I look pretty tall but my heels are high
D/A Em G D/A Em G
The simple things you see are all complicated
D/A Em G D/A Em G A
I look pretty good but I'm just back dated yeah

D A/D G/D D
Substitute lies for fact
A/D G/D D
I can see right through your plastic mac
A/D G/D D
I look all white but my dad was black
A/D G/D D
My fine looking suite is really made out of sack


I was born with a plastic spoon in my mouth
North side of my town faced east and the east was facing south
And now you dare to look me in the eye
But crocodile tears are what you cry
If it's a genuine problem you won't try
To work it out at all, just pass it by, pass it by

Substitute me for him
Substitute my coke for gin
Substitute you for my mum
At least I'll get my washing done

But I'm a substitute for another guy
I look pretty tall but my heels are high
The simple things you see are all complicated
I look pretty young but I'm just back dated yeah

I was born with a plastic spoon in my mouth
North side of my town faced east and the east was facing south
And now you dare to look me in the eye
But crocodile tears are what you cry
If it's a genuine problem you won't try
To work it out at all, just pass it by, pass it by

Substitute me for him
Substitute my coke for gin
Substitute you for my mum
At least I'll get my washing done

Substitute lies for fact
I can see right through your plastic mac
I look all white but my dad was black
My fine looking suit's really made out of sack



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Re: Substitute

11/28/2005 8:01 AM

Christian Miller (1937) wrote:

Nothing wrong with simple diatonic triads. It'ds all in how you play them.

Check out the voicings Pete uses for this song. Many guitarist think triad = barre chord, but there are many little voicings up and down the neck one can learn. Many jazz musicians overlook the humble triad, but musicians found things to do with them for 500 years, so I reckon there's still a lot in there. When Pat Metheny started using them, it was like a breath of fresh air.

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Re: Subs

11/25/2005 8:27 AM

Christian Miller (1937) wrote:

Here's a thought - instead of thinking of excahnging individual chords, think about the shape of a progression and then about different progressions which serve the same purpose. Here are some common examples

Dm7 G7 C
Dm7 Db7 C
F Db7 C
Dm7 G Em

Each have a different quality, but they may be exchanged for one another. The important thing is that the melody of the song sounds good against the new chords. I will publish a lesson on this soon!

This is because all the chords above have one of three qualiies. The first chord is 'somewhere else' the next chord is 'going home' and the third chord is 'home.' As long as the chords preserve these different feelings and don't mess up the melody, they can be excahnged for one another.

My views on substiutions are quite extreme and free:
Tonic major chord: replace with any chord that includes the following scale degrees:
1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 (b6)
Tonic minor chord: replace with any chord that includes these degrees.
1 b2 2 b3 4 5 b6 6 b7 7
Dominant chord: replace with any chromatic or diatonic chord that includes the 4th and/or the #2 of the scale.

There are other rules that deal with what I call 'outside' chords that are not dissonant like a domiannt seventh. These include II, IV and bVI degrees, for example, and involve the idea of modal colour. It's more complex to explain. Watch this space.

And remeber, the bass is the most important voice of the chord!

However, unless you are fluent in chord construction, this may be difficult to understand. However, it all comes from the most basic rules: if it sounds good it is good.

Experiment! Play more conservatively when jamming with strangers though, or they may get angry. When accompanying a soloist, one needs to understand their logic. It's OK to clash with them at moments of tension but you must also be able to back them up with chord that agree with their solo at other times. Many soloists use a fairly limited pallete of notes - modes, perhaps, or pentatonic scales, or extended arpeggios - over certain chords, so you learn the sounds and how to respond when you hear it.

A long journey... 12 years so far. Every time I get to the top of a hill, I see another one. I enjoy this...

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Re: Subs

11/26/2005 4:00 PM

Peter Kiley (890) wrote:

Wow Christian, thanks a bunch! That's a big help.

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Re: Subs

11/28/2005 8:05 AM

Christian Miller (1937) wrote:

I hope so - just go with your ears half the time, and you won't go wrong. The freedom can be frightening.

There are loads of little sub rules that people use which are highly effective at giving you the jazz sound and fit under the general umbrella I've outlined above - you'll find lots of them mentioned on various discussion threads on this site, and in lessons.