Respond to this
Re: Scale over Chords
1/17/2002 9:27 AM
Robert Strait (6660) wrote:
Hi Doug -
I think your totally bugging out over this one man! I want to first apologize to the original poster for taking this thread hostage for our own theoretical arguments....to the original poster, my first response to you is still my first choice for answering your question.
Doug, I really have to say you are confusing me with this last post. In terms of the general argument, just refer to Riley's post...he lays it down pretty clear, and I am in agreement with him.
There are, however, a few comments in your post which I would like to address.
I'm going to say what I know to be true, not what I wish were true so that music is this pretend thing which is all neat and tidy and easily digestible.
fine by me, Doug. I'm not telling you what to say or what to believe. I'm only speaking from my own beliefs. I believe that music is more easily digestible if you chew on it before you swallow, no what I mean? Are you assuming here that you know what I wish for? Well, your right, I do wish music was "all neat and tidy", but, as you've pointed it out, it's not. Therefore I don't see anything wrong with posting what I feel was a pretty simple and appropriate answer to Nestor's question.
Ah, simple. That leads me to this one:
Your solution is: dumb it down
My solution is: keep it simple. I never presumed that Nestor is dumb, only that he lacks experience.
I have NO problem with saying intervals like b9s take some getting used to, no problem saying they may sound very freaky until you learn how to work them in... I have lots of problems with 'pretending' b9s are something Nestor, or anyone, isn't 'ready for.' It's like: here's a sound, can ya dig it? Maybe Nestor's going to say, "no, that sounds like dogsh*t to me" ... fine, no arguing with that... but acting like you have to be a member of the special Jazz Crew before we let you on to b9s, because tampering with b9s before you're ready to could actually explode your brain -- is just BS.
Whoa! Talk about presumptuous! Your totally out of line here, my friend! You deduced this all from my 4 to 5 sentence response to Nestor? Is my jugement call of what I felt was an appropriate answer any more "snobbish" than your answer? I would even dare to say that you Doug are more directly trying to decide what is in Nestor's best interest. "Special Jazz Crew"...please!
I hope Nestor feels special...this is all for you, my man! LOL
Well, that's just a flat out disagreement with my 'theory' ... you think my explanation is wrong.
No I don't, as evidenced by my first sentence: "I understand your point". I actually trying to be open minded about your suggestion, but I am also offering my take on it. Yes, the A# is very dissonant. And, no, enclosure is not terribly challenging to the ear because it's a device used to "hightlight" a consonant note, like the A note in your example. Enclosure creates quick, momentary tension by not emphasizing the dissonant notes, but instead acts to create a sense of a "more consonant" target note upon relsolution.
BTW, who the hell is even talking about "phrasing"? Of course phrasing is essential...but you need to learn words before you can write sentences or assemble phrases. In fact, notes which land on strong beats are actually the "anchors" that our ears use to desipher strings of notes as "phrases".
Ok. No disagreement there. You can organize by chord tone, or by mode or by any way that makes sense to you. Different ways of organizing lead to choices, different ways of playing.
Huh? Now you agree? This is all I was proposing from the start...organization. Or as Riley puts it...theory.
But what I want to know is, what makes 'B mixolydian' so very comprehensible for our imaginary beginner (Nestor or whomever), while saying, "add the A into the B major scale so you don't hop over the chord root"... is some kind of radical out-there musical rocket science to be contemplated only by the very advanced?
Honest, it looks to me like if it's a familiar way of thinking (to you, an advanced guitar player), then that's okay... but if it takes you off guard, why then it must be very advanced. No, it's not, it's just unfamiliar. Nothing I said is advanced, it's just not the same old same-o.
Whoa..out of line again! LOL! Dude, our date is off! lol!
Let me ask you Doug: did you jump out of the gate as a beginner with the knowledge you are presenting in this post? Could you comprehend, understand, or control highly dissonant note relationships, or any of the concepts you are outlining to Nestor when you were first learning? Were you able to just gloss over "dick and jane", or comic books, because you could intuitively understand Shakespeare, or Ginsberg? I would guess the answer is "no". What makes "A mixolydian" more comprehensable for the beginner is the absence of a highly dissonant note, and the presence of a very "in" note...simple as that! Wouldn't that have made sense to you as a novice, before your ears became more seasoned? Our first sense of "right" and "wrong" notes begins with experiencing "consonance" and "disonance", or "in" notes and "out" notes...this is how we start our explorations into note organization and theory. No, it's not "rocket science only to be contemplated by the advanced", but it is "dissonance to be more easily heard, understood, and controlled by the somewhat experienced".
Theory is the familiar way of thinking. This doesn't mean you can't be a free thinker, or explore things outside of the "same ol' same ol', but it does mean that these are the musical concepts that have been explored and agreed upon by many, many musicians around the world, so it might be wise to learn from standardized, musical history since it's available to you. It certainly can save time if someone teaches you how to read instead of blindly trying to figure it out for yourself.
Perhaps the concepts you have outlined are just "familiar ways of thinking" to you, also an advanced musician...your inflicting your views just as much as anyone else in this post.
In light of all the personal judgements you have made of me in this last post, I have no choice but to break up with you! I don't want to see you anymore! And I want my shirt back! LOL
Seriously, Doug, I dig the fact that you continually challenge the norm...I think that's important for the advancement of an art, and you are the champion rebel here at WN! You are more up to the task than anyone, and you seem to have a real passion for breaking the rules...right on! Just remember that the majority of us still subscribe to following the rules...don't hate us for it! LOL